Podcast #125: Colson Whitehead on The Underground Railroad and Poker

This week, we’re bringing you a rebroadcast of a conversation with MacArthur Award-winning author Colson Whitehead. The author, a former fellow at NYPL’s Cullman Center for Scholars and Writers, came to the Library in 2015 to discuss his book The Noble Hustle: Poker, Beef Jerky & Death, which chronicles his experience as an amateur card player trying his hand at the World Series of Poker and which originated as an article series for Grantland. In this conversation with Jessica Strand, MacArthur Fellow Whitehead discusses what he learned about the human condition in Las Vegas—and discusses the early stages of writing one of the most exciting books of the year, The Underground Railroad.

Asked about what he was currently working on, Colson Whitehead described work-in-progress. He did not mention it by name, but with hindsight, it does bear a striking resemblance to his recently released novel, The Underground Railroad:

"I'm back to novel writing. This is a historical novel, I guess. It takes place in nineteenth century America. A lot more research, sort of annoying. Some books take a lot of research. Some don't. Zone One which is about post-apocalyptic New York didn't require a lot of research. Just walk around Whole Foods at rush hour and you're there. So this is actual reading books like old days. I'm thinking about the mid-nineteenth century. It's nice to be working on a novel again... I have twenty-four pages. Tomorrow it will be twenty-five. Friday twenty-six."

To prepare for the World Series, the author hired both a poker coach and a physical trainer:

"I'm hunched over, as you can see. I have bad posture, and you burn a lot of calories at the World Series. You're sweating a lot. Anxiety is wringing the weight out of your body, so it seemed a physical trainer could teach me how to sit properly, how to breathe calmly and keep my stuff together at the poker table... So I had my poker training, my physical training, and then the existential training kind of crept in as I realized I was unprepared for the World Series of Poker and had to figure out how to do it."

Before competing in the tournament, Whitehead needed to decide the country he would represent. With characteristic wit (read Apex Hides the Hurt if you want a laugh), he decided on one foreign to most cartographers:

"It was the World Series of Poker, but I wasn't sure which country I would represent. I'm American, but I don't always feel American. But I always feel like I'm a resident of the Republic of Anhedonia, so that was my sort of joke, anhedonia meaning the inability to feel pleasure, which I definitely I guess identify with. And so, instead of playing for America, I'd be playing for the Republic of Anhedonia, which meant figuring out what my flag would look like and getting some gear. So I got a sweatshirt made with the Republic of Anhedonia just so people would know that no, I'm not part of the Swedish team; I'm not part of the Japanese team."

While the book does, of course, situate itself in the world of poker, Whitehead says that he doesn't think of The Noble Hustle as about poker:

"For me the book is not so much about poker. I always thought of it more as a humor book. So I was really just trying to cram in as many jokes per page as I could while explaining poker, while explaining my experiences hopefully in a fun, entertaining way. I did want it to appeal to people who don't like poker, who hate poker, who have family members who like gambled the house away but could still pick up a book about poker."

Whitehead began his writing career as a critic for the Village Voice, a relatively solitary endeavor. The experience of researching poker, he said, was enjoyable because it allowed for a form of proto-socialization that appealed to a more antisocial impulse:

"I don't like talking to people or leaving the house, so if you're a critic, you can just be in your house. They send you records, send you books. You don't actually have to communicate with other people, which is what I liked about working on this book when I was researching tournament play. It really is like being at home. You're surrounded by nine other people at the table. You don't really talk to each other if you don't want to, and it's sort of like Disney World for shut-ins. I'm 'being social' and leaving the house, but I can actually pretend nobody's there."

You can subscribe to the New York Public Library Podcast to hear more conversations with wonderful artists, writers, and intellectuals. Join the conversation today!