I was happy to learn more about the book, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll, during this unique kid lit salon at the Stephen A Schwarzman Building. It is the 150th anniversary of the book's publication, and this event was a panel discussion of how the book has influenced librarians, teachers, authors and illustrators in their crafts. Jeanne Lamb, coordinator of Youth Collections for BookOps, introduced the panelists. Monica Edinger is author of the blog Educating Alice, and fourth-grade teacher. Dana Sheridan works at the Cotsen Children's Library of Princeton University. Robert Sabuda is a pop-up book artist and creator. Charles Santore is an illustrator from Philadelphia. Sheridan moderated the discussion.

What Does Alice Mean to You?

Sheridan wanted to discuss the history of the book. She asked the panelists to describe their first memory of the Alice book.

Sabuda opined that the book was lengthy, and he loved the fact that adults in the book were horrible.

Edinger's father first read the book to her when she was eight years old. She read it repeatedly, and she wants to become Alice.

Santore did not read the book until he was in art school, when he was about 20 years old. 

Sheridan felt that the book was always there. The Disney movie stuck in her mind. She asked which character the panelists felt most connected with.

Edinger has been a teacher for decades. She reads the book aloud to her students.

Sheridan asked what other books have influenced the panelists.

Edinger mentioned The Princess and the Dragon and The Wizard of Oz. She gravitates towards fantasy.  

Sabuda likes the Cheshire Cat. He felt like that character had some unspoken knowledge of what was occurring. 

Sheridan asked if there were other characters with magical powers in the book, and the consensus was no.

Santore loved the Alice book, but he put it aside after he initially encountered it. Prior to 1985, he did magazine and advertising illustrations. Then, he started illustrating Alice books. He ensures that the body language in the illustrations remains true to the characters. 

Sabuda stated that authors and illustrators rarely communicate in traditional publishing houses, even if they are married. The illustrators give life to the characters, and it can seem daunting to follow in the footsteps of other illustrators of classic children's works.

Sheridan mentioned that Carroll was English. She asked how Alice remains relevant today.

Alice in Action in the Classroom

Edinger is not sure of the word relevant, but her students really enjoy the book. Adults also appreciate the book. She reads the book to her class, and she does verbal annotations. None of the parents have objected to the book.

Sheridan reminded us that many people objected to what they perceived as the "nonsense" in the Alice book when it was first published. She asked Edinger to discuss the tea party that she has with the kids.

Edinger shows the kids a variety of Alice books that have different illustrators. They discuss the pictures, she has them memorize poetry in the book, such as Jabberwocky. She has a tea party and games, including croquet. 

Sheridan found some croquet mallets that were designed as ostriches. The original Alice had 37 images, which Carroll drew himself. 

Santore mentioned that the word "wonderland" has been associated with the drug culture. When he is illustrating Alice books, he deals with Alice and the other characters in the circumstances that they are in. When Alice has grown big in the small room, the reader is not sure whether she will get through to the next page. Each illustration should be a surprise. Readers should not see replicas of essentially the same illustration throughout a book. Illustration is a matter of design, composition and perspective.

Sabuda believes that illustrators cut through the fog to just the meat and potatoes of the book. Artists should focus on the essentials of what is going on without getting distracted by irrelevant details. 

Sheridan asked Edinger what she says to students who do not like the book.

Edinger said that one boy wished that the book had more excitement in it. However, overall, her kids love being read to, and they engage in many Alice-related activities. She does not expect the kids to read it on their own, but they love the experience they get with it in the classroom.

Illustrating a Classic

Sheridan asked Santore to describe how he went about illustrating Alice books.

Santore always starts illustrating books by reading the text and making doodles. He is choreographing the book. He does no research on the book at the beginning of the process so that he can work without preconceived notions. Illustrators cannot expect the editors to tell them what they want. He enjoyed using a real girl as a model for his illustrations of the Alice books. 

Sabuda stated that most illustrators use models, but he does not like to do that. He does much historical fiction by just sketching them from his imagination. He feels daunted by photographs and models; he feels that he does not have time for them. His parents started getting him pop-up books when he was a child, and he is fascinated by the engineering that is involved with these books. He never experiences artist block when working on a book; he always knows the direction that it will go in.

Santore does not like the word creativity. He simply creates problems when working on a book and solves them. 

Sheridan asked which aspect of the Alice book resonates most with the panelists.

Sabuda likes the baby pig and the Duchess. They freaked him out when he was a boy.

Edinger likes the mock turtle.

Sheridan mentioned the Jabberwocky poem; it was the first poem that she read, and it has stuck with her.

Santore enjoys the tea party scene. However, there were so many moments and iconic images associated with the book, such as the image of the caterpillar and Alice. 

Audience Questions

Someone  asked about Lewis Carroll's relationships with girls, given the fact that he wrote the story for one of his own daughters, who was named Alice.

Sabuda told us that ideas of love in the Victorian era were different than they are today. 

Edinger stated that girls often stayed home with the governesses while boys went to school. 

Sheridan mentioned that Alice was always polite, even when talking to a caterpillar. 

An audience member told us that there was much segregation by age and gender in the Victorian era.

Sabuda stated that many books published before Alice were highly moralistic.

Another great kid lit salon! Hope you can join us for the next intelligent conversation amongst authors, librarians, teachers and aficionados of children's literature.

• Alice in Wonderland: 150 Years Later
• Educating Alice blog by Monica Edinger
• Lewis Carroll Journal
• Lewis Carroll Society of North America
• Robert Sabuda's web site

Upcoming Children's Literary Salons